The possibility that we could be having a baby boy is 50% (duh), but we are pretty sure its a little boy...
Anyway....so with this inkling that we may have a son comes the thought (naturally...or maybe not for some) of circumcision.
This was all I could think about the other night and I had all these other ideas about it but it was about 2am and now I can't remember any of them (typical)!
So, I will put it out to you all out there! Is circumcision still necessary in today's day and age?
Here are a couple of questions:
1. Why cut off something that a baby is born with naturally? (God created men this way)
2. Is it just another form of plastic surgery?
3. Is there anything to prove uncircumcised men have better sex?
4. God is the creator of sex and wants us to enjoy it, so why would he command his treasured people (Israelites) to cut off something which would make sex less enjoyable? (and yes God loves all of us!!)
5. Does circumcision prevent disease in women?
6. Should we just go with "Whatever daddy has, his son will have?" (it appears some men are quite sensitive about this!)
There are lots of thoughts and opinions about circumcision and I dont think it is fair to make parents who do opt to have circumcision performed to be cruel and barbaric people.
This is something Russ and I are still looking into and discussing and trying to decide on what to do.
Any thoughts people have would be really appreciated!!
8.7.10
Just the 'tip' of the iceberg
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15 comments:
to be honest, besides 'medical' reasons I don't see the need to have boys circumcised. In my opinion the OT command of circumcision is not something Christians are required to do.
2 very quick cents worth :)
There is absolutely no reason to circumcise your son. Circumcision of boys(for other than religious reasons) is a North American custom (one that shocks and appals most europeans) I've written quite extensively about circumcision, including links to tons of information. Obviously every parent has to ultimately make their own decision, but it should be an educated one based on the facts.
http://iinformedparenting.blogspot.com/search/label/male%20circumcision
Hi Bek, good questions.
While a bare majority of boys in the US are circumcised today, the great majority in the rest of the developed world are not and never have been. The rest of the English-speaking world tried it (it became almost universal in Australia and New Zealand in the 1950s), found it did no good, and has now virtually given it up. Now it's hard to find a doctor willing to do it - and there has been no epidemic of foreskin-related complaints, and the HIV rate in New Zealand is much lower than the US.
I suggest you think, not so much about circumcision, but about intactness, wholeness and the option of simply leaving your son's body alone.
So instead of asking if there is "anything to prove uncircumcised men have better sex", ask what a unique rolling structure, filled with ~20,000 specialised nerves like those of the fingertips or the lips, strategically placed at the end of the penis, could possibly be for but to give better sex? It's been described as giving not just "more sensitivity" but "a symphony of sensation."
@Middo: not just your opinion, but also St Paul's, as in e.g. Gal 5:2 "...if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing."
That was me.. pressed publish before I finished...
None of my boys are. We discussed pretty well the same questions, looked at the context in the OT, remembered we aren't Jewish, had a brainwave and read Colossians 3:11 and decided there was no reason, barring a medical necessity.
Sure, it'd be cleaner but they'll learn.
My first son was circumcised. My husband insisted on it thinking it was his "Biblical Duty". We fought. I lost because I wasn't as informed as I am now. I wish I had been. I did tell the hospital staff I didn't think it was a good idea but it was done anyways. After we switched doctors I expressed to him how upset I was about the circumcision. His response to that was, "You know, circumcision isn't medically necessary." Then by God's grace I became an avid reader and read just about everything I could on this subject including what the New Testament has to say about the "New Covenant". I presented this information to my husband. His reply, "If I could choose to go back in time and have ONE do-over, it would be to take back his circumcision and leave him intact." He really feels bad for being so stubborn. We have two other boys born after our first. They're intact. They have never had any problems with their complete genitalia, ages 3 and 7yrs. My circumcised son has meatal stenosis. :( Meatal Stenosis is common in circumcised boys and only circumcised boys. This occurs because the meatus (urinary opening on the glans) isn't protected by the prepuce organ (foreskin). I applaud you for becoming informed BEFORE your son arrives. Have a wonderful birth :-)
http://www.stopcirc.com/christian.html
That's the thing Jen- an intact penis is just as easy to clean as a circumcised penis. we teach our boys to wash their penises regardless, right?
To answer the question of looking like daddy...what does this mean, really?
I know the typical statement. "I left it up to my husband b/c he has a penis. He decided he wants his son to look like him."
But what is that REALLY saying? No one looks exactly like another perosn. Even identical twins can be compared, at least by their mother.
An adult's penis is incredibly different from a child's penis regardless of whether the prepuce is intact or missing.
So what is the father truly saying?
Could it be that he is saying:
"I refuse to accept that what was done to me is bad, so I am going to pass it on to others"
Or maybe he is saying:
"I don't want to be constantly reminded at every diaper change of what I am missing"
We know from many experiments and studies that when college students are tricked into a hazing experience, they turn around and do it to others.
When will the cycle of abuse stop? When the adult who was victimized is willing to look into himself, accept what was done to him and being healing. At that point you will not find ANY father willing to inflict this upon his son.
Instead you will hear:
"My son will not be subjected to what I was"
or
"Over my dead body will my son be hurt like me"
and even
"I will make sure my son is protected and is not hurt like me"
The difference lies then in the father, and has little to do with the son. Mothers who think they are leaving it up to the father, stop ignoring your partner's pain and help him heal.
If we have sons, Duncan wants them to be circumcised whereas I really don't care. Because I'm a fence-sitter, I'm happy to go along with what we wants and he wants it for hygiene/cleanliness reasons only - not because he believes circumcision is binding on Christians or anything like that.
I've never heard some of the reasons you mentioned in your post such as preventing disease or making sex less enjoyable. I think we do all sorts of things to our bodies (such as piercings, tattoos etc) but that doesn't make it wrong.
Sarah let me just ask you one question to put this into true perspective. would you have your new born son tattooed and pierced? Would you pierce his tongue? Would you have a dragon tattooed on his back when he's 3 days old? It's different to say " we do things to our bodies like tats and holes" but we do these things as consenting adults. circumcising a baby is taking away his ability to choose. a tattoo can be removed, a piercing can heal closed. Circumcision is forever.
Danielle, that is a ridiculous question...of course I would not get my child tattooed etc however many parents choose to get their baby's ears pierced and that is not consenting either. In the end, parents need to make the best decision for their child.
My point was in response to Bek's question about whether it is wrong to modify the bodies that God has given us ie. removing a foreskin. The parents I know who have had their sons circumcised have done it for health reasons...not for religion or so they can feel superior to those parents who choose not to. They should not be made to feel like they are cruel or barbaric.
Bek, I reckon it is one of those things that will always be debated about. Like Hugh7 said, it was pretty universal in Australia for our parents' generation, but now many doctors will not do it (Duncan's cousin had to find a Jewish doctor to perform his son's circumcision). Who know...in a few years it might be deemed favourable again. I reckon, if you have a son, pray about it and know that you aren't being a bad parent either way. There are plenty of one-eyed ranters out there who will try and make you feel guilty.
I don't think surgery on a healthy body is a decision that needs to be made. Its unethical for physicians to solicit an arbitrary genital surgery on healthy children. Its actually cleaner to keep the foreskin intact because its bonded to the glans just like the fingernail is to the finger. Its bonded to keep foreign pathogens out. Its fused to the glans because the penis is still developing. Just like a kitten's eyes are fused because its still developing you NEVER try to separate the eye lids! You should NEVER try to separate the synechia on of the prepuce organ. During a circumcision the foreskin has to be torn off the glans. This results in a raw open wound. The wound is then vulnerable to infection because it's in contact with a soiled diaper. Its crazy to think its somehow hygienic to have faeces up against an open wound. A newborn baby is in a state of critical hemorrhage from a loss of just 1 ounce of blood. Circumcision carries a risk of death. Having a complete set of male genitals does not.
http://www.drmomma.org/2010/05/death-from-circumcision.html
Care for a complete penis is simple. You wipe like a finger from base to tip. The tip of the prepuce is a sphincter. It opens to expel urine and closes tightly when voiding is complete. This is one of God's marvels when he designed a protection feature on the genitals of our infant boys. Circumcision was meant to be a curse. Christ died for us so we no longer needed to shed any more blood. Caring for an open wound is a daunting task. It is so much easier to keep it intact. Trust me. I've seen it both ways. Intact boys are sooo much easier.
Thanks for all your comments guys!!
Let me just get one thing straight first, the decision on whether we circumcise or not has NOTHING to do with our faith. We do not believe that God commands us now to circumcise our sons and religion and our faith plays no part in this at all.
Secondly, in response to Guggie Daly, I have NEVER heard a circumcised man say that his son will look like him! Its ALWAYS been uncircumcised men!
I'm sorry, but I will not make a decision based on that theory. It is uninformed and uneducated and whatever way you go (snip or not) it MUST be an informed decision and I refuse to simply make a decision either way without looking at both perspectives.
My brother had his son circumcised when he was 7/8wks old and he had to go find a Jewish doctor, but he was given no respect or information from the doctor he got the referral for. I'm sick of bias doctors who are so ANTI circumcision that you are given no decent information. Its not fair and it puts parents into unfair situations.
Again, thanks again for all your thoughts, they have really got us thinking and researching ALOT!!
And like I said in my original post Danielle, I do not like parents being made to feel barbaric and cruel for circumcising their sons. If they have researched it and made an informed decision, than that is fine. As parents we all do what WE feel is best for our child. And parents need to start to learn to be less judgemental of each other. Hard I know, but necessary.
From what I've heard, it is suggested that the head of an uncircumcised penis is more sensitive than that of one that is. I don't think it actually makes sex any less enjoyable... if anything, you'd think it would stretch it out a little more! ;)
God had the Israelites be circumsised (at day 8, where the vit K [clogging agent] in the blood had reached the proper levels. He's so smart) to set them apart from all the heathen tribes around them. Same as he told them how many tastles to wear on their cloaks, not to get tattoos or eat pigs.
I didn't realize what a sensite and hotly debated issue this was. I personally don't think circumcision is neither barbaric or cruel, but the question I'm left with is it necessary either for hygenic reasons or spiritual reasons, and I'd say no it's not necessary, but if someone chose to circumcise their son for those reasons they wouldn't necessarily be wrong for doing so.
For us and soon to be born bub (also good chance its a he) we would have almost 0% chance of getting a circumcision done here in Thailand, and it might even be dangerous to do so.
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